And in about a year you will be able to see how a government handles shunning. It does appear that the ARC is going to add that into their report to the Australian government, so you will be able to see the political will that a democratic government has on this subject.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
If you think that a first world Democratic country will make it illegal than you should certainly try and then see if it is not struck down in the courts so you may see the fruits of your labor in 5 years or so.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Stephan apparently you feel like you have a case if you are in the US try and Sue under article 42 of the US code. I can pretty much guarantee you would lose even if there was a law against shunning under eccleastical abstentian principle
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
At least in the US it is impossible claim to survive when you sue watchtower. If anyone knows of a successful claim I would love to hear about it. And by a successful claim the court issued some relief for the plantiffs.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
It is not just a law you would need a law that is constitutionally viable in whatever country you the law is in and depending on treaties a law that would stand up in like the ECHR. You would have to get past prior court cases. And even politically you would have to get enough legislatures to stand up to not JWs but many religious groups who would fear that any cretailing of ones religions doctorine it will affect them too, look at Russia right now, or anytime when someone in the US government disagrees with a way a religion acts. And remember the US has the most witnesses and that is only 1/300th of the population so neither witnesses nor ex witnesses have that much political power really.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Another point looks at the US Supreme Court case of the Hobby Lobby decision. The court ruled that a for-profit company has religious constitutional rights, they went further from just encouraging people not to do an act they prevented their employees from doing an act. They literally prevented employees from getting family planning care though the insurance that was supplied with their employment. And that is even after the same court ruled that the government has a compelling government interest in requiring every citizen to have health insurance and if not they would have to pay a tax for it. -
115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
But if you think that a legislative action can work you should try and get the requisite number of citizens to sign a legally defined petition and see if a member of your legislature can craft a law based on it.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
The closest argument that I can find in the US is Title 42 Title 21 subsection 1985(3) it basically says that two or more people cannot conspire to deprive someone of a constitutionally protected right such as speech, association or voting. But the courts have ruled that the person who is claiming this violation must pass a 4 part test:
(1) a conspiracy; (2) for the purpose of depriving, either directly or indirectly, any person or class of persons of the equal protection of the laws, or of equal privileges and immunities under the laws; and (3) an act in furtherance of the conspiracy; (4) whereby a person is either injured in his person or property or deprived of any right or privilege of a citizen of the United States.
In Tauvar v Bar Harbour Congregation of Jehovah's Witensses the court ruled:
In his deposition, plaintiff does variously refer to “disfellowshipped” members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, members of the general public, and individuals generally with religious beliefs different than those of the Jehovah's Witnesses, as the “class” of which he is a member. Tauvar Deposition, at 123–124. Plaintiff also states that his religious views reflect doctrinal differences *746 with the religious views advocated by the Jehovah's Witnesses.12 Id. at 181–183. Yet beyond these general statements it is unclear precisely what is the composition of the “class.” Plaintiff simply refers to people who have been thrown out of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Tauvar Deposition, at 142, and states that because of certain doctrinal differences Watchtower has prevented “our” attendance at the organization's public meetings, id. at 145. However, plaintiff also states that the Congregation welcomes members of all faiths, including “disfellowshipped” members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and that individuals who share plaintiff's particular views, see note 12 supra, attend public meetings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Tauvar Deposition, at 158, 160, 161–162.13Even assuming that plaintiff can establish a class of similarly situated “disfellowshipped” members of the Jehovah's Witnesses, plaintiff's section 1985(3) claim must fail.14 “The requirement that the discrimination be ‘class-based’ is not satisfied by an allegation that there was a conspiracy which affected the interests of the class of persons similarly situated with the plaintiff[ ].” Harrison v. Brooks, 519 F.2d at 1359–1360. Since plaintiff himself asserts that the Congregation welcomes “disfellowshipped” members to its public meetings, as well as individuals who share plaintiff's particular religious views, plaintiff has neither alleged nor presented facts to show either a conspiracy directed at the plaintiff because of his membership in a class of “disfellowshipped” Jehovah's Witnesses or that the criteria defining this class were invidious. Opprobrious epithets do not satisfy the requirements of section 1985(3). Accordingly, the court ACCEPTS the Magistrate's recommendation GRANTING the defendants' motions to dismiss and for summary judgment on plaintiff's section 1985 claim. -
115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
In Bates v Kingdom Hall of the Congregation the court wrote this:
Indeed, it is the essence of religious faith that ecclesiastical decisions are reached and are to be accepted as matters of faith whether or not rational or measurable by objective criteria. Constitutional concepts of due process, involving secular notions of “fundamental fairness” or impermissible objectives, are therefore hardly relevant to such matters of ecclesiastical cognizance.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
In the US for the government to enforce a prior restraint on the speech of a citizen or an organization they have to show a compelling governmental interest in restraining that speech. The most common expression that comes to mind is that you cannot yell fire in a crowded theater, but why would that restraint be permissible. The government has a compelling interest in keeping citizens safe from the undue panic that could cause foreseeable and imminent danger. If someone yells fire in a crowded theatre many people will rush out of the theatre and the likelihood of injuries is read and substantial so there is a compelling interest in stopping that kind of speech. The other issue is that Watchtower can claim freedom of the press when they present material in a written format they are serving in a capacity of the press. In New York Times v United States the court ruled that the government could not stop the paper from printing the pentagon papers even though the Nixon administration felt that there was a compelling government interest in keeping secrets just that secret. The court ruled that there is a heavy burden that the government must show in order to restrain the conduct of the press and that even those secrets did not rise to the level of that burden.